\input zine.sty

\lline{\hl Interview with William S. Burroughs}
\lline{by Deke Motif Nihilson}
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This interview was conducted on Halloween day 1990, thank Gawdess�
because it's about the only way I could feel much better about�
missing the Larry Lea dumbfucks at Civic Center. Working some�
provocative leads, me and my friend David went to Lawrence KS the�
previous Saturday and found Mr. Burroughs. I gave him a wad of�
queer zines, all the ones I had copies of on hand (Chainsaw,�
Sister Nobody, Pavement of Surface, Faggot, JD's, and mais oui�
some Homocores). He was into being interviewed for Homocore, so�
over the next few days I worked it on out with his personal�
secretary James Grauerholtz, a very sweet man who remembered me�
from the River City Reunion back in '87.

So anyway, we set this up on th' phone (I in K.C., they in�
Larrytown) and my friends there picked up the bill (ahem) for all�
those logistical calls, so additional thanx to the�
Sorrels/Zastoupil household.

P.S. I also talked to Mr. Grauerholtz for another 20 minutes or�
so, but for the purposes of space kept the transcript to me�
(Deke) and Uncle Bill (WSB). Mr. Grauerholtz was very lucid and�
witty about the state of both queer lib and ``punk''/youth�
culture. He was wonderfully facilitating and I thank him special.

P.P.S. Burroughs and Grauerholtz both love Homocore, but probably�
not as much as we love them! Enough. The interview\dots

\picture{2.9in}

{\ninepointsanserif WSB WITH E-METER (photo stolen from RE/SEARCH�
\#4/5 without permission)}

{\bf Deke:} Both Tom Jennings, the editor of Homocore, and myself�
have been really interested in your discussion of Tongs as a�
model of group mutual support and protection. However, this model�
seems suited to professionals with money. Do you think Tongs�
could function without a lot of money and on street-level?

{\bf WSB:} Yes, I think so. Remember [the sort I spoke of] were�
modeled on the Chinese Tongs, and many of the Chinese were very�
impoverished. The idea was that the people who had more money�
would help those that didn't.

{\bf Deke:} Well, at least in the U.S., and as far as I've ever�
seen, organizations in the gay community tend to be more of the�
upper-class businessmen-type variety. We [Homopunks] are�
operating much more of a street-level reality. We're wondering�
how Tongs might mesh up better with our own particular needs.

{\bf WSB:} Well, I certainly think you could, if you got support�
from like-minded professionals. Also, I think some sort of�
commando groups to act against gay-bashers is a very good idea. �
That requires no money, just dedication, like the Guardian�
Angels.

{\bf Deke:} There has been some discussion, like in OUTWEEK about�
whether or not homosexuals should arm themselves\dots

{\bf WSB:} I think they should. There's various weapons, of�
course [long pause] tear gas is always good. It's a good weapon�
and it doesn't necessarily leave corpses laying about. Capsdun is�
the best teargas.

{\bf Deke:} Capsdun?

{\bf WSB:} Yes, that's C-A-P-S-D-U-N. Many, all of the places�
that sell teargas now sell Capsdun. Stop a charging Doberman in�
its tracks.

{\bf Deke:} To say nothing of the next bigot running down the�
street after you! Do you see gay identity itself as a means of�
liberation?

{\bf WSB:} Well, in a sense, yes. I mean, I remember when I was�
younger, back in the 1920's, it was all sorta swept under the�
carpet. Nobody came out in the open with it. It works both ways,�
though. One of the things that causes anti-gay action is the fact�
that they dare to squawk about it. A lot of straight people say,�
``Oh well, it's fine, we know about it, we just don't wanna have�
it shoved at us, that's all.''

{\bf Deke:} In your personal experience, what have you found to�
be the most effective tool for fighting homophobia?

{\bf WSB:} Actually, I haven't run up against very much of it,�
personally. Well, I always used to carry a weapon in New York�
City, usually tear gas or a blackjack, but not because of 
gay-bashers so much as general violence.

{\bf Deke:} Do you think there can be a political solution to�
bigotry?

{\bf WSB:} Uh, no. I don't see that. You can't legislate decent�
behavior.

{\bf Deke:} Right. So many bigots seem to be legislators.

{\bf WSB:} Well, that's it, that's the trouble of course.

{\bf Deke:} Do you think it can be addressed on its own terms?

{\bf WSB:} Certainly it always falls to the good, the more�
liberal legislators that can be placed in office. Gay legislators�
too, of course.

{\bf Deke:} As is already happening to a degree\dots

{\bf WSB:} That always helps, it's a step in the right direction.

{\bf Deke:} Do you see AIDS as a governmentally-manufactur\-ed�
biological plot?

{\bf WSB:} Well, if I had to bet my money -- I say, if I HAD to bet�
my money, I'd say it probably was deliberate. Now Dr. Seale of�
London, an AIDS specialist, he attributed it to the Russians. �
Well I don't see that they have anything to gain by eliminating�
homosexuals and intravenous drug users. And also, it's a very�
simple job of biological engineering, genetic tinkering, with the�
visnu virus, which is found in sheep and is always fatal. There�
is something called the Committee Against War and Fascism, that�
came right out and said that AIDS is biological warfare by the�
U.S. Government against people, against gays and blacks.

{\bf Deke:} Do you think the populations hardest hit by AIDS were�
specifically targeted?

{\bf WSB:} Well, it seems so. If you think of the seed of it as�
being man-made, deliberately induced, then it is certainly very�
specifically targeted. It could've been introduced through the�
needle business. The addict population forms a ready-made conduit�
for the introduction of any biological or chemical weapon. It�
could've been introduced through the needles. You can't put�
viruses in something like heroin because they live for a very�
short time outside the body, but they can put it in the needles.�
Most people buy their needles where they buy their heroin.

Rather odd that it should appear first in intravenous drug�
abusers who are notably sexually {\it in}active. With an STD,�
you'd hardly expect it to start with a segment of the population�
that has very inactive sex lives.

{\bf Deke:} Are you still writing at all?

{\bf WSB:} Oh yes, yes. I have a book coming out, I think in the�
spring. It's an abridged version of a book called GHOST OF CHANCE�
which is about Madagascar and lemurs.

{\bf Deke:} Oh, was that -- there was a story in OMNI\dots

{\bf WSB:} Yes, that's it. That was an excerpt. When the straight�
edition will come out, I'm not sure. This one's being put out by�
the Whitney Museum. George Condo, a young artist, does the�
illustration to my text. It's a condensed text of the novel. But�
I hope that the trade edition will be out next fall.

{\bf Deke:} One thing I've always particularly enjoyed about your�
books is what might be referred to as the ``pornographic''�
contents, the non-time-local sexual scenes. Do you ever foresee�
yourself writing any more of that?

{\bf WSB:} Perhaps I would [pause] there's very little sex in�
this book I've just finished, The Ghost of Chance. As you get�
older, you begin to ask yourself how much sex has to do with sex.

{\bf Deke:} What do you mean?

{\bf WSB:} Well, it's a complicated question. The actual buttons�
that cause arousal in many cases are non-sexual. [Long pause.]

{\bf Deke:} I wanna end by asking if there's anything you'd�
particularly care to say to all the queer kids out there?

{\bf WSB:} I'm very militantly inclined and I certainly feel that�
they should defend themselves.

{\bf Deke:} Do you think preemptive attacks would every be�
justified?

{\bf WSB:} Oh yes, certainly; offense is the best defense in all�
military actions. Don't wait for them to attack if they're going�
to attack.

WSB Communications / POB 147 / Lawrence, KS 66044


\picture{3.6in}

{\ninepointsanserif WILLIAM ON MARS (photocollage by J.P.A,�
stolen from RE/SEA\-RCH \#4/5 without permission)}

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